Debt burden of Estonians at EUR 7 billion

Got any official statistics to back up your claims of 'the vast majority of Estonians are not even credit worthy' and 'owe 3x the value of your property'? Only one reliable link will do.

AIDS stats and school problems shall do for ya propaganda guy. Estonia has the highest HIV rate per capita in Europe.

What's that have to do with credit worthiness or property value vs debt levels? You really are a retard who either has a tenuous grip on reality or a critically short attention span. Maybe both.

It's really simple and doesn't take a BSC to work out.

Average salary in Estonia.
Say 700 Euro, or can we be charitable? 850?
That's not even £700, which is what the same person will get in London or Oslo PER WEEK!

NEW Property price typical of boom years
65 000EURO+.

Our neighbour stupidly declined an offer of 50 000Euro at that time for an old FLAT, not a house.. (NOT in Tallinn either!)

Your average Estonian is NOT EVEN SOLVENT, never mind credit worthy.

Who are you kidding numpty?
Yet the banks were still willing to lend to such people at the height of the property bubble.

Even if you consider the property prices declined by 65%, the average Estonian doesn't even have the cash at the end of the month to pay his electricity bill (especially next year with the 50% price hike and the current freezes on public sector pay and the highest inflation in the EZ) never mind service a mortgage.

Any YOU MR Propaganda like Ansip are making out Estonia is gonna get rich by 2020.

You are just laughable!

We don't need your mystical Math or using current salaries vs boom year property value tricks either. Just provide a reliable link that backs up your original statements.

Being as you obviously never read anything other than your own home market "pep talks", and anything that represents Estonia in the light of reality is wrong.

Can I suggest you read THE ECONOMIST?

I don't believe that paper is known for "hysterical rants".

As for the "higher levels of tourism" this very newspaper was complaining that none of those so called "tourists" actually spends anything, unless of course you want more Finnish people to buy cheap alcohol.

As for the "local production"I have yet to see a figure that represents anything other than Estonia as a cheap pool of sem-skilled labour, nothing you can get excited about.

The foreign investment went to Latvia and Lithuania, because they have lower unit labour prices now.

Again the source BBN over months and months.Of course you won't quote it because it would go against the idea of Estonia as EURO - NIRVANA.

BIG DEAL!

Are you serious? The Economist? The very paper that YOU have condemned as a rag for daring to say anything good about Estonia. Sorry pal, but you cant have it both ways.

There you go with your hyperbole again: 'none of those so called "tourists" actually spends anything'. Show us the article where it says NONE of the tourists spends ANYTHING (your words). Yeah, like they just come here and sleep on the streets and drink water from puddles so they dont have to spend anything. LOL!

Regarding local manufacture, Ive no doubt youre clueless as you didnt even know about the local boat industry or metal fabrication. Do you know that there are actualy farms here that produce food that, shock-gasp, is actually sold in shops and even exported?

Are you going to say that there is NO foreign investment here?

Those imaginary aircraft carrier parts for third world boat industry, knut. Is that the "boat industry" you are talking about.

The "Sorry pal" and "pony up" and all these hip comments which pass for "modern" english useage.
I suppose you learnt as a fork lift driver in some nonsescript east end London warehouse.

Actually the whole point of posting here is to show you up as an illiterate, arrogant Estonian prick.

It works really well, because every time you rattle away on your keyboard you show first class ignorance of the fundamental rules of mixed post industrial economies and the major problems caused by feeding countries like yours with yet more subsidies.

It's quite funny because you have now become the very personification of a type of pseudo "entitled" European which David Cameron and his government is allergic to.

More's the tragedy, years ago this would have been marginal, but now the UK has proven itself right on pretty much the whole undemocratic shooting match, and is gaining consensus all over Europe.

Care to post a single link to back up even a single bit of your rant?

Show where I or anyone else said all is well. It is only YOU who keeps putting that in other peoples mouths. Btw, read below what ameeriklane wrote. He just blew your idiotic statements completely out of the water.

The fact is, it's not at all suprising 26% of Estonians have a mortgage.

Let's say politely, these were the ones that were "credit worthy", which is why the market couldn't expand further.

Now you still have high unemployment and a very very recovery, mostly being pushed along by fresh EU money, - nothing else.
Just an economy based on SUBSIDY.

Go ask the building suppliers or the machine rental companies like CRAMO they'll tell you exactly the same story.
Without EU money they're DEAD.

The banks then recoiled during the crisis from any new lending whatsover and tried to justify the lending they had on their books as being ALL GOOD.
This is highly cynical, but they have all be being doing this EU wide, until it all started to "hit the fan" in Ireland.

In Ireland the STATE was obliged to take all these bad loans on their books.
Estonia refused to become the lender of last resort, so as it stands, the banks are on the hook for a devaluation of their loans by AT LEAST 50% or so.

Why of course the banks are the first to "TALK UP" the "rising profits" or "golden future" of the baltic states, is, they don't want to get caught out long term like in Latvia, with a bankrupt property sector.

If you don't believe me stating it's bankrupt, then how come the property construction sector is still on its knees 5 years after?

Simply because there are masses of unsold properties still on the market, just like there are currently 750 000 of them unsold in Spain today.

In reality with the current glut, and absence of credit worthiness, or even bank capital and loan guarantees it would be cheaper to cut our losses and BULLDOZE them all.

We're still waiting for reliable links to back up your statements. And for your information, much of the economy is running off increased local production, higher levels of tourism and increasing foreign investment. If you had bothered to read ALL the articles here you would know that, but as usual, you never let facts get in the way of a hysterical rant.

That unfortunately leaves us with yet another failed EU country, which increasingly depends on EU funding to survive at all.
It's a vicious circle which only a complete halt to EU subsidy can halt.
Estonia contributes nothing by return to the EU budget.

If there were ONE single reason why Estonia forced marched the population into the Euro, the "raison d'etre" was somehow it could show,-
The EU it could not afford NOT to carry on piling more subsidy into this failed country where living standards are not evolving positively.

For the sake of the Euro project as a whole, Barroso could not afford to stop sending large amounts of money to Tallinn ONE WAY, in this huge illusory ponzi scheme that the Euro has become.

The fact is,- Estonia is still no better off, despite that cash now amounting to nearly 5000 Euro per head of population since only 2004.

That staggering amount is more than 500 Euro PER ANNUM!

So what cars Estonia produces. Lets start with there, shall we dummy.

Changing the subject again? You know there are medications to treat ADD, dont you. Just post reliable links to back up your fantasies.

It's not entirely pointless making a show of IQ47, he keeps the country warm.

Estonia doesn't produce a fat lot.
Their largest company is shown in this very edition of BBN.

..you know a sub assembly plant for Ericcy, actually declared as some sort of Swedish thing.

You know it's the same sort of thing they had just outside Strasbourg called ALCATEL, or another one just outside Colmar working for Sony, also assembling phones & trinitron monitors a few years back.

However if you were just to look at the region ALSACE alone, quite apart from Mr Loeb who is a world rally champion,

producing some of the world's finest white wines,

a nuclear power station making the leccy,

making Peugot cars in Motbeliard,

the TGV as well just in the next town - we have a rather large concentration of wealth, without having to crow about some mobile phone company as being the latest and greatest..

That is just ONE region of France.

Now what do they ACTUALLY make in Estonia?
They're pretty good at making hot air, and swallowing EU money in the process.

Fortunately I was a little unfair saying billions of EUROS had been poured into Estonia in 20 yrs.

In fact they have been "INDEPENDENT" for 20 years, but the following situation existed.

This makes it look even more of a basket case, compared with the successful hard working regions described above & below.

In reality, it's probably Alsace-Lorraine, Baden Wurttemburg, Luxembourg and the entire "blue banana" that is currently financing this vast Eastern European scam.

The scam, passes for "structural funding" for countries that could easily start to look after themselves as they are so proud of declaring how excellent models they are of economic virtue & how good their (subsidised) growth is.

Additionally:-
As was the case of all Eastern European coutries pre enlargment in 2004, they DELIBERATELY PUT OFF, renovating or doing any important infrastructure inprovements until they joined the EU, so as they could profit from the VAST figures which they could basically CON the rest of Europe to provide, in the name of "solidarity" and "modernisation".

Estimated at
139.9 billion euros in the period 2007-2013 to the ten Eastern and Central European countries, this would have been considerably higher in the period 2003-2007.

In fact it's likely it exceeds 1/4 of a TRILLION, which had never ever been made the subject of any referendum or democratic process.
This compares quite obviously with the ECB "bail out funds" for the bankrupt members of the current Eurozone.

The (collossal) sums are nearly the same.
No wonder Europe is BUST.

In the period of 2007-2013 ALONE Estonia was allocated more than 3.40 billion euros from structural assistance, which we know is the LARGEST in the EU.

You just lost a point for not keeping to the task and for blatantly demonstrating your critically weak reading comprehension skills yet again. After all your blah, blah, blah, you still haven't 'proved' that Estonia is a failed state by the accepted international definition, that the country manufactures nothing or that there are 30000 Estonian asylum seekers in Finland. Put up proof or shut. All the other prevarications are just wasting time and accomplishing nothing.

"that the country manufactures nothing or that there are 30000 Estonian asylum seekers in Finland."

You got the wrong bloke.

Everyone else here agrees Estonia despite receiving monster sums from the EU has a pretty much non existent manufacturing base, and I never said 30 000 Estonian were seeking asylum.

That is your imagination.

Finland is in Schengen, why would Estonians try to get asylum there?

You are looking more and more like a complete nutter with your "put up or shut up".

Where did you learn that one?
In a turkey plucking sweat shop in Ireland?

Having memory problems now. Go ack to the asylum seekers thread and see what you wrote. And there has been no agreement that Estonia has a pretty much non existent manufacturing base. The issue at hand was your claim that Estonia produces NOTHING. Proof, man. Where is the proof?

You got the wrong bloke for the Asylum.

BUT, Estonia DOES produce nothing, contributes nothing to EU budgets, has TV channels full of crap, and now you are adding to it online.

You are the one that needs to be put in an Asylum.

Let's compare your largest company in Estonia, a subsidiary or Ericcson, doing work on the cheap for Sweden with that of a moderate size PME of France:-

Ericsson Eesti employed 1 397 people on the average last year and its payroll costs including the social tax were 23.3 million euros, averaging close to 16 680 euros per employee. Revenue per employee was around 890 000 euros.

For those that don't know French;-

Alcatel-Lucent the result of a fusion, employs 2900 people in 130 countries, with some 2200 international partners.

We don't talk of value added here, because it's self evident, with Colombes, Illkirch et Sophia Antipolis,+ Brest being major manufacturing units and 70% of the companies listed on the Paris stock market supplied with Alcatel solutions it's not a pygmy.

"Par ailleurs, les solutions Alcatel-Lucent Entreprise sont utilisées dans plus de 70 % des entreprises du CAC 40."

Alcatel is NOT the only company supplying mobile infrastructure in France.
There is also Siemens and Ericcson.

What do you have there in that little village on the Baltic?
Some little small scale manufacturing?
Do you make any cars or guns?
Ships?
Lorries?
Railway wagons?

You just can't get around to the fact that it was YOU who started the 'net recipient countries are blah,blah,blah and should have all their funding cut off etc'. Tough luck. Again, by your own criterion, Luxembourg is worse than Estonia. It is all you say it is but still has to suck money ore money than it puts into the EU. I personally don't have any problem with it,but YOU apparently do. LOL on you painting yourself into another corner.

Ah you are obviously the WANKER that continues posting that Luxembourg is in dire straits because it doesn't contribute to the EU budget, despite it having the highest per capita income in the world.

FYI.
Have you ever looked up a proper slang dictionary of the English language.

The word "chump" is about 30 years out of date, so it makes you look a complete cretin, using it today.

So by that logic USSR is the reason why Estonia is not an agricultural country anymore. Another fail for propaganda ministry.

You lose 2 points for that one. The first is for not realizing the changes to agriculture that have taken place here since 1991 and the second for not knowing how collective farms lowered overall production as well as the forced urbanization reducing the total labor force in the countryside.

LMAO! If not for USSR you retards would not even have television these days, yet you have the nerve and gul to call out Western Europe for taking Marshall aid. As fir agriculture, I bet most of your tractors are BELAUR, eh. Try to explain that to your American masters. Having tractors manufactured in the "last dictatorship of Europe".

Another point gone for not knowing that the Estonian economy was developing pretty well in the pre-war years and would have done much more without the occupation. Every country occupied by the Sovs had their economies turned upside down.

Regarding the Marshall Plan and other US subsidies/aid, when is your country going to pay back its share? Come on, money sucker. You're against Estonia getting structural and integration funds as well as CAP funds but have no problem whoring yourselves out for the US and sucking off its teat.