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Survey: 35,000 Estonians commute regularly to Finland

THIS PUBLICATION HAS 39 COMMENTS
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Travel to scam Finnish welfare system. Reply to the comment answer
~correction [04.10.2012, 14:12]
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And how, pray tell, do they do that? Reply to the comment answer
~Yeah, right [04.10.2012, 14:53]
They get the citizenship and cash social benefits in both countries. ha ha nicely learned from the greeks, I must say.
~oh that's easy [04.10.2012, 18:26]
Links please on how that can be done so easily.
~Oh that's easy [05.10.2012, 19:52]
Come on propaganda guy. You claim you don't cash you checks at the KELA office in Helsinki.
~honest eesti keel [09.10.2012, 18:54]
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That's a really good way to analyze things. I guess it mostly identifies Estonians who regularly commute, as someone who migrated probably just gets a Finnish number.

The way this is tracked is that a mobile phone "registers" with the nearest mobile tower as it moves along, and I suppose the researcher got access to that data, probably in aggregated (anonymous) format.

They use information like that in the US for analyzing traffic. So if all the mobile phones of people on the highway are moving slowly, they know there's a traffic jam. Reply to the comment answer
~ameeriklane [04.10.2012, 16:53]
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statistics like this are just rubbish.

It's well known the main mobile operators in Estonia don't permit roaming, whereas the reverse is not true.

Finnish people by majority are allowed to roam all over the EU, because they have money.

The number of those travelling to/from Helsinki is probably at least DOUBLE those indicated by these kind of random stats with faked results.
Try ringing an Estonian subscriber when he/she's in Finland if you don't believe me. Reply to the comment answer
~rubbish in rubbish out [04.10.2012, 20:09]
Ameeriklane makes a good post as usual and then you post this tripe. Guess what, slick? Whenever I am in Finland, my clients back here in Estonia have NO trouble getting hold of me. Now how's that work in your twisted world? You say these are faked statistics: now prove it.
~@It's Pat [04.10.2012, 20:21]
What are you doing in Finland propaganda guy. Preparing for another medical scam with your Armenian buddies, eh.
~armenoid eesti [04.10.2012, 21:06]
Working, unlike you esti=NO. Perhaps you would like to address the issue with some actual evidence instead of engaging in baseless, flatulent-powered accusations for a change.
~LOL!!! [04.10.2012, 21:28]
Well, you must be even more stupid than we thought.

It's well known that Estonian mobile is one of the most expensive in eastern Europe, the roaming prices are penal, the prices to CALL an Estonian mobile are crazy especially from VOIP or Skype (ever tried it Mr Estonia-can-never-do-wrong - propaganda nut??!!)

I'm sick and tired of hearing your constant pep stuff about how great Estonia is.

The fact is France Telecom mobile is cheaper to use in Finland and all over the Baltic states ROAMING than EMT is to use on its own NATIONAL network.

OUCH! All the Estonian networks are overpriced and suck big time.

How do I know?/....cos I happen to have several EU Sim cards, and Estonia is just as expensive to use as the UK networks which are a total rip off...

(but we have 4-5x bigger incomes than you do see...Mr-Hard-worker-and proud of your 700Euros a month...)
~EMT prices sux [04.10.2012, 23:12]
So, you've gone from 'It's well known the main mobile operators in Estonia don't permit roaming' to 'It's well known that Estonian mobile is one of the most expensive in eastern Europe, the roaming prices are penal' in just a few hours. By your own words you have proven to everyone that you are full of ---t. Good job. And just for your information, I make much more than 700 a month. That is why I don't make a career out of posting negative comments here. I leave that to failed, dumped losers like you.
~@It's Pat [04.10.2012, 23:34]
wow Postman pat makes MUCH MORE than 700 Euros a month.

arff arff!

he maybe makes 900?

Out of curiosity have you ever worked in good old Deutschland??

People making money don't have to boast about it there, or try to claim "others are just losers".

Try it some day, or maybe you couldn't work in Germany 'cos you wouldn't make the grade honey?
~mega millions [05.10.2012, 21:19]
Why would I want to live in Germany when I have a good living here? Unlike you, I have succeeded here. That is why you post rubbish (remember contradicting yourself only yesterday?), while people like ameeriklane and myself do not.
~@Who's that? It's Pat! [05.10.2012, 22:22]
Come on propaganda guy. Salary at the ministry can't be as good as you claim.
~nice try rest propagand [06.10.2012, 00:39]
Hey, Progaganda Guy, don't DARE to compare yourself to Ameeriklane. He actually posts informative comments here and adds to the general knowledge base, while your sole reason here is to patrol these pages and make sure any seditious comments not to the liking of the elite of this country are squashed in the name of the Ministry. Your comments are just as rubbish as those you criticise, and it's astounding that you actually BELIEVE any readers here value your comments = not for nothing are your comments routinely dismissed as "oh it's the propaganda guy again" Nobody actually takes you as anything but a paid stooge of the govt and it's astonishing you have the gall to even include you and Ameeriklane in the same sentence.
~Shut up Propaganda Bee [06.10.2012, 00:39]
The thing about you, besides the facts that you contradict yourself (even on the same day on the same thread!) and respond to your own posts is that you so often don't get it right. There are three expats here in this office who post on this site and you almost never get it right when it is my turn to respond to an issue or dimwit such as yourself. Let's see you address your mistake of roaming charges now instead of deflecting the thread away from your hilarious cock up.
~Roaming Charges [06.10.2012, 08:53]
It's interesting that when I contradicted your false assertion about roaming charges citing personal business experience you launched into personal attacks. In fact, ammeriklane posted twice giving hard information to prove your claim is full of it but instead of responding with counter-evidence, you continue to hammer away with personal attacks in a lame attempt to deflect the issue of you posting wild claims. Your only response to ameeriklane is a pathetic kindergarten-level comment about how even a few cents is too much for Estonians. Is that all you really have?

You are absolutely right in that ameeriklane's posts are informative and add to the site, and in this case, they have proved you WRONG big guy.
~Roaming Charges [06.10.2012, 09:17]
Get some better snooping technology over at the Ministry, pal, I'm not the same guy who you've been bantering with above. Was happy to leave you 2 inbreds to it, until I saw you actually had the audacity to compare your crap with Ameeriklane's, your comments are just as non-informative and agenda-based as the other guy (I'm guessing it's Eesti=No). Go back to it now if you like and pat yourself on the back if it makes you happy, just don't assume that because YOU say your comments are not rubbish everybody automatically agrees. In fact, just once, I'd like to see you, Propaganda Guy, come up with a comment that doesn't involve (a) responding to someone else's critical post or (b) crow over some article showing eesti in a positive light with some jackass comment like, "Where are all the loser expats now?" Maybe then people would take you as anything else but a Ministry stooge.
~Shut up Propaganda Bee [06.10.2012, 14:37]
esti=NO keeps using his alter ego to launch personal attacks instead of addressing his colossal blunder about the roaming charges. Come on, you can do better than that. Post some facts or admit you made a mistake.
~@It's Pat [07.10.2012, 00:25]
Right. Ok. So I must be eesti=no, because only one person on the entire website could think you're not the superintelligent commentator you think you are? Is that your reasoning? OK, carry on believing that if it makes you happy. Why don't you have a look at the postings again and look at things like syntax, choice of vocab etc, and ask yourself, do the styles of these various postings really look like they all came from the same person? Goodness, I didn't realise salaries were so low now that the Ministry had to hire mentally challenged candidates.
~Shut up Propaganda Bee [07.10.2012, 17:07]
Ministry employs AIDS patients from Narva only these days.
~sniff whiff doctor [07.10.2012, 17:58]
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The EU placed limits on roaming rates within the EU years ago. So I don't think it should be too expensive to roam in Finland with an Estonian mobile versus a mobile from another EU country.

I had a quick look at the roaming rates in Finland for EMT (Estonia's largest mobile provider) compared to Vodafone Ireland (I picked Ireland because the rate page is in English and they also use Euro).

EMT: 34.8 cents/minute (calls to EU, including Estonia)
Vodafone: 36 cents/minute (calls to EU, including Estonia)

So in this case, EMT is cheaper. I'm sure it's possible to find examples where another country's provider is cheaper, but I don't think it will be by a lot.

https://www.emt.ee/roaminghinnad/-/roaming/country/FIN
http://www.vodafone.ie/planscosts/paymonthly/roaming/map/finland/ Reply to the comment answer
~ameeriklane [05.10.2012, 17:19]
Even few sents matter to the starving eesti people.
~baltic kaiser [05.10.2012, 18:00]
Yes but 34cts a minute when you are earning 80EUROS an hour is a very different matter from when you are earning only 20.

One of them is 100% of your earnings!

The other still leaves you 60 Euros even if you stay on the phone the whole hour!

DUH?
why can't other people add up?
~4x the spending power [05.10.2012, 21:25]
My purpose in posting those prices was to show that Estonian mobile roaming rates aren't all that different from other EU providers. It was a counter to this quote earlier in the comments:

"It's well known that Estonian mobile is one of the most expensive in eastern Europe, the roaming prices are penal"

If I were an Estonian working in Finland, I'd probably keep my Estonian mobile for incoming calls/SMSes, and get a local SIM card for outgoing calls.

Also the average hourly wage in Finland is 17.63 EUR an hour, according to official statistics (though it is from 2009 though slightly outdated):
http://www.stat.fi/til/pra/2009/pra_2009_2010-11-12_tau_003_en.html
~ameeriklane [05.10.2012, 22:17]
Use post-2009 stats. After all Estonia was one of the most hardest hit by the crisis. Not saying Finland wasn't it, but their banks did not need a bailout.
~i think you should [06.10.2012, 11:35]
When I posted the 2009 stats, that was all I could find with a quick search. I agree that the more recent stats may be different, but I can't imagine they would change drastically. That 17.36 EUR/hour average wage is not going to change to 30 EUR/hour in 2011 for example.
~ameeriklane [06.10.2012, 17:54]
Although it might be 19 euros today. Economic growth and all.
~maybe not [06.10.2012, 19:48]
"the prices to CALL an Estonian mobile are crazy especially from VOIP or Skype"

Whoever it was calling it a "blunder", of course didn't address a single one of the important points here.

Relative to the average wage, Estonian ROAMING charges are penal. (like 4x what someone pays in first class Europe), because at 17Euro per hour, if someone calls you roaming in Finland, then it is COSTING you money to work there.

GET IT? Costing you money to be there, because 0.34cts/min is more than your minimum wage per hour!

Calling an Estonian mobile on VOIP Or SKYPE has been specially set up by the providers to charge roughly 4x what it costs to call say a French or Russian mobile.

You call that normal?

Well yes of course it's normal, Estonia sux in 4x as much money from the rest of the EU per head than any other eastern European country.
It always was a one way traffic.
~Estonian mobile sux [07.10.2012, 14:53]
Estonia is third world indeed.
~eesti keel [07.10.2012, 15:34]
Way to go esti=NO. Keep deflecting the issue some more. Now it is cost vs income? Care to add any more variables to cover your mistake? Maybe you can tie in the TGV while you're at it. You know you can do it if you try hard enough.
~Smoke and Mirrors [07.10.2012, 19:39]
Propaganda guy work on your material. I know most of the employees at ministry are 50 year old senile workers, but come on get some new material instead of the same demented lies.
~sai kan villain [07.10.2012, 22:05]
Ah, your alter ego is here to 'bail' you out as you can not produce the evidence to back your initial false claims. Keep trying to deflect the issue. It doesn't matter. Either pony up the proof, or admit you were wrong about the roaming charges.
~LOL as usual [07.10.2012, 22:25]
Why should anyone have to "pony up" for somebody else's claims? This latest guy's contribution doesn't look to me like he is eesti=no. Are you that desperate to believe that there is only one person here who would dare criticise the glorious Estonian state and its propaganda-spouting employees like yourself? Really??? I mean, any fool who reads any Estonian would see the Estonian media is full of commentary from Estonians themselves who think the elite of this country are decimating the impoverished population of this country and frankly I would advise anyone reading these dumb propaganda comments to go to delfi or postimees and use google translate or whatever to actually see what ordinary Estonians feel about their glorious neoliberal state.
~Shut up Propaganda Bee [08.10.2012, 00:00]
You know that there are medically accepted ways of treating schizophrenia, don't you?
~Doctor [08.10.2012, 00:19]
Estonia is beyond any treatment.
~aaron [08.10.2012, 09:27]
Glorious Estonian state is an oxymoron.
~propaganda guy rikoo steel [09.10.2012, 18:52]
Estonia is just another ex soviet failed state.

When the EU stops paying, it will just be "pump and dump" to all those worthless Estonian projects....

Expensive concert halls that have no audiences,
motorways that wear out in a year or two, an insecure ID card system which no one else in Europe wants,

a railway with no trains or freight traffic,
an "international" airline with 2 aircraft & a brand new airport that has no useful destinations or airfreight.

This is the stuff "propaganda guy" is rightly proud of.
~oxymoron [09.10.2012, 19:43]
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